Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

This Forum is for scientific, medical, pathological, environmental, etc. discussions.
Rules are different for this forum, be sure to read through them inside.
Forum rules
The rules for this forum are different from all the others on this site.
1) Questions regarding sick skinks do not belong here.
2) If you are not sure if your topic is OK here, post it in the General Discussion forum; a moderator can then move it here if appropriate.
3) This forum is for advanced discussions, such as scientific, medical, reproductive, pathological, environmental, etc.
4) PROOF, FACT, and BACK IT UP are three things to keep in mind when posting.
5) Comments need to add to the discussion. “Good job”, “I agree”, or “Nice skink” etc, do not add to the discussion and are not allowed here. If stating an opinion, back it up with what experiences have led to that opinion.
6) The 3 month rule is not in effect; you may post on any thread no matter how old it is.
User avatar
Richard.C
Kimberley Klan
Kimberley Klan
Posts: 10474
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:37 am
Country:
Location: melbourne australia

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Richard.C » Sun May 19, 2013 6:43 am

Northerns are one of the best at putting it back on,early litters give them plenty of recovery time,for a first litter it was quite a wirlwind affair,big big litter probably didnt help either,i thought you handled it well,it can be nerve wrecking enough with a healthy litter
User avatar
Lea
Patron Saint of Blueys
Patron Saint of Blueys
Posts: 4261
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:01 am
Country:
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Lea » Wed May 22, 2013 4:08 am

Scotts1au wrote:Liz the Alpine Blotchie had several dead babies this year including a combination of slugs, some small dead babies (probably less than 20grams) and one ultra large one born dead and fully developed at between 70-80 grams. The other largest ones I have had were around 50grams. Weird that it obviously continued to grow normally despite being dead but was born very late by my standards.



Scott, or any of the other breeders, in your experience, do you think a high birth weight can have a negative impact on the survival odds of that individual?

I've reread this thread a couple of times and not being a breeder, I am hesitant to say I see patterns with the correlation of body weights to mortality, but it seems apparent that a lower body weight increases risk of mortality and is almost a reflection of the other end of the weight scale, where a higher than normal body weight also increases mortality risk.

It might be my interpretation of a narrow view of breeding results, but it would be interesting to know if those doing the breeding are actually seeing these results and interpreting them similarly over a broader view of the breeding history.

Of course, there are breeding anomalies such as higher than usual mortalities in a particular season, which have no correlation with weight at birth, so I appreciate that this may be difficult to interpret separately. Thank you.
Shinglebacks - Nippy, Lava, Suunto, Lutea, and Hermione
Easterns - Kiah and Jade
User avatar
Richard.C
Kimberley Klan
Kimberley Klan
Posts: 10474
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:37 am
Country:
Location: melbourne australia

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Richard.C » Wed May 22, 2013 8:49 am

I think it was a combo of first time mums and a hot summer in my case,small litters, babies a reasonable size,had bigger babies before and alot smaller

That was blotcheds to

I guess big litters could cause issues if it gets tight for room inside female

Add in slugs,and delayed births and still borns are more likely
User avatar
Jeff
Vladik Pippery
Vladik Pippery
Posts: 5684
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:33 pm
Country:
Location: Arizona, USA
Contact:

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Jeff » Wed May 22, 2013 10:04 am

I have never had a still born baby that was "large". They have all been average size or smaller. That is not representative of a huge sample size, but in my experience, big is a good things in terms of health. The biggest babies I have had of every species/sub-species have usually been the most robust and most likely to thrive.
6.10.9 T. s. intermedia
2.2.7 T. s. scincoides
1.2.1 T. nigrolutea
2.2.0 T. r. rugosa
1.2.3 T.g. keyensis
2.0.5 T.s. chimaera
0.0.0. T. occipitalis
0.0.0. T. multifasciata
http://www.btskinks.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bluetong ... 846297977#
User avatar
StaceyLeigh
Northern Love
Northern Love
Posts: 1561
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 4:24 pm
Country: USA
Location: CNY
Contact:

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby StaceyLeigh » Wed May 22, 2013 12:40 pm

Only 1 out of the 4 still-borns looked really small to me, the other 3 seemed "normal" size, meaning similar in size to other live babies when they were born. I really think the problem came when she couldn't expelled that huge slug, everything got delayed and the other 4 died before they could be born.
User avatar
Susann
ADMIN
ADMIN
Posts: 4007
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:06 pm
Your Facebook name: Sue Bee
Country: USA
Location: Utah

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Susann » Wed May 22, 2013 12:43 pm

How long was it she struggled with the slug? Was it the full 9 days?
1.0 Merauke
Bred Meraukes for years, now I get to just enjoy my BIG boy Milo!
Sue Bee on FB.
User avatar
StaceyLeigh
Northern Love
Northern Love
Posts: 1561
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 4:24 pm
Country: USA
Location: CNY
Contact:

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby StaceyLeigh » Wed May 22, 2013 12:59 pm

I am not sure. I didn't see her pushing or wiggling at all after day 2, and I was watching her closely checking on her several times a day, then once she had the slug and still-born she pushed on and off for a few more days and had 2 more still borns.
User avatar
Lea
Patron Saint of Blueys
Patron Saint of Blueys
Posts: 4261
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:01 am
Country:
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Lea » Thu May 23, 2013 5:20 am

Thanks for responding. its just my narrow view interpreting this thread. Just shows how you can take a single view of a situation and believe it as normal. It's great to have so much knowledge around for education, thanks guys.
Shinglebacks - Nippy, Lava, Suunto, Lutea, and Hermione
Easterns - Kiah and Jade
User avatar
Scotts1au
Great Scott
Great Scott
Posts: 4360
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:19 am
Country:
Location: Central Victoria, Australia

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Scotts1au » Thu May 23, 2013 4:08 pm

One of those things that many of us never know how many slugs are born if we don't watch the whole time cos they are eaten by the mother, or in an outdoor enclosure, I've seen other blueys steal the yolk sac from babies. This year I had a mix of extra huge and small dead babies born.
If you wait, all that happens is that you get older. M. Andretti
User avatar
Lea
Patron Saint of Blueys
Patron Saint of Blueys
Posts: 4261
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:01 am
Country:
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Lea » Fri May 24, 2013 2:48 am

Stealing egg sacs from babies is a pretty low act for blue tongues, but I guess it's just a very raw picture of survival of the fittest. Incredible insight, Scott! Sorry for all the losses this year, though, that must be tough.
Shinglebacks - Nippy, Lava, Suunto, Lutea, and Hermione
Easterns - Kiah and Jade
User avatar
Scotts1au
Great Scott
Great Scott
Posts: 4360
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:19 am
Country:
Location: Central Victoria, Australia

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Scotts1au » Fri May 24, 2013 3:43 am

I have a video of a newborn eating the yolk sac, with another blotch looking on, poised to steal it. :)
If you wait, all that happens is that you get older. M. Andretti
User avatar
Lea
Patron Saint of Blueys
Patron Saint of Blueys
Posts: 4261
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:01 am
Country:
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Lea » Fri May 24, 2013 4:26 am

I think it would be appropriate to post it here, it's sort of relevant.
Shinglebacks - Nippy, Lava, Suunto, Lutea, and Hermione
Easterns - Kiah and Jade
User avatar
Scotts1au
Great Scott
Great Scott
Posts: 4360
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:19 am
Country:
Location: Central Victoria, Australia

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Scotts1au » Fri May 24, 2013 6:06 am

If you wait, all that happens is that you get older. M. Andretti
User avatar
Lea
Patron Saint of Blueys
Patron Saint of Blueys
Posts: 4261
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:01 am
Country:
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Lea » Fri May 24, 2013 6:26 am

I had to watch with the sound off, as I'm working, but wow, that was a heck of a meal for the baby, he looked exhausted trying to get past the stick until you moved it. That's quite a sight to see the adult looking on, he looks like he'd have had a try to take it had the feast gone on for too much longer and the little one would surely have been powerless I. His exhaustion to stop it.

A great behavioural capture, Scott.
Shinglebacks - Nippy, Lava, Suunto, Lutea, and Hermione
Easterns - Kiah and Jade
User avatar
StaceyLeigh
Northern Love
Northern Love
Posts: 1561
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 4:24 pm
Country: USA
Location: CNY
Contact:

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby StaceyLeigh » Fri May 31, 2013 4:54 pm

Just can't believe she wasn't done :shock: Calypso delivered another still born late today (that's 5) This one stunk pretty bad, had to have been dead in her a while :dead: She has been acting fine, eating very well. She seems very healthy.
User avatar
Richard.C
Kimberley Klan
Kimberley Klan
Posts: 10474
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:37 am
Country:
Location: melbourne australia

Re: Another stillborn, and huge egg mass 9 days later?

Postby Richard.C » Fri May 31, 2013 6:24 pm

Thats what my lass did,acted normally ate ravenously then down the track squeezed one out,didnt stink though,but u could see it had been dead for a bit

,mine werent as long a gap as your lass though,but mine also had tiny litters in comparison,your lass had a huge one,which may prolong things

Return to “Advanced BTS Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests