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Re: The dreaded "Diet Thread" and calcium

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:07 pm
by Bird_Brain
Katrina wrote:I think it is probably good for them to get different foods rather than the same stuff every meal

You kind of bring up a good point. Again, most of my "animal nutrition" is from dogs. But even with a fortified, commercially made kibble dog food, many experts recommend to atleast change formulas every so often. This insures that the dog is getting everything it needs and not lacking something from the diet.

Re: The dreaded "Diet Thread" and calcium

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:16 pm
by Jeff
But ONLY if the diet is llackking something! 8)

Re: The dreaded "Diet Thread" and calcium

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:16 pm
by Bird_Brain
Ok, after doing the math, I am actually really surprised! Below is a list of the ingredients, the amount used (in g), the calcium (in mg) and phosphorus (in mg)

Dandelion greens (50g) 93.5 : 33

Collard Greens (50g) 72.5 : 5

Spaghetti Squash (200g) 46 : 24

Chicken breast (150g) 22.5 : 342

If we add these us, this meal is lacking calcium. It will have 234.5mg of calcium and 404 mg of phosphorus. This would give us a .58 : 1 ratio. We will say 1:2 ratio.

Now lets add in the calcium
Calcium (10g @ 35%) 3500 : 0

The calcium supplement Mel used was only 35% calcium, thus the 10gs used only supplying 3500mg instead of 10000mg
This will give us 3734.5mg of calcium total in the meal. Using the above 404mg of phosphorus, this would make the diet a 9.24:1 ratio of Ca:P.

This actually shocked me as I thought it would take ridiculous amounts of calcium supplement to make it worth feeding to skinks. In all honesty, Mel could have used 1-2 grams of calcium powder to make this meal have the recommended/desired 2:1 ratio. So really when making an individual meal for a single skink, a person could literally use just a pinch or two to make the meal balanced (in terms of Ca:P).

Re: The dreaded "Diet Thread" and calcium

Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:23 pm
by Bird_Brain
Jeff wrote:But ONLY if the diet is llackking something! 8)

Right, but being a commerically made and processed food, they all should have the correct amounts of nutrition for our animals. So if thats the case, why do they STILL recommend to alter formulas/brands every couple of bags?

Im not saying you would need to alternate between dog food diet and a fresh diet. I am simply saying that maybe we should change brands of dog food occassionally? Or throw in a different kind of frozen veggies than you used the last meal?

Re: The dreaded "Diet Thread" and calcium

Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:53 pm
by AnnaMonroe
What brands of dog food do you guys recommend the MOST ?!
& which ones should bluey owners definitely stay away from?

Re: The dreaded "Diet Thread" and calcium

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:17 am
by Richard.C
im a chef, i hate cooking,lol

Re: The dreaded "Diet Thread" and calcium

Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:28 am
by El Lobo
Richard.C wrote:im a chef, i hate cooking,lol


You might be able to get Fatal to work as your commis in vegetable prep.

Re: The dreaded "Diet Thread" and calcium

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:44 am
by Lucifer_Spades
While this is informative there are other factors to take into account as well.
for instence vitamin c while helping with iron absorption also decreases calcium availability. So depending on the amount of vitamin c rich food in the meal a certain amount of calcium is rendered useless thus changing the balance.

There are several other variables but those must wait til I am not trying to type on my phone.

Re: The dreaded "Diet Thread" and calcium

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:25 pm
by Bird_Brain
Lucifer_Spades wrote:While this is informative there are other factors to take into account as well.
for instence vitamin c while helping with iron absorption also decreases calcium availability. So depending on the amount of vitamin c rich food in the meal a certain amount of calcium is rendered useless thus changing the balance.

There are several other variables but those must wait til I am not trying to type on my phone.

Obviously you are correct. It would be improssible to determine the exact amount of calcium absorbed my the animal at home. However this was to help get a better idea of how much calcium would be needed and not to determine the absorbtion rate of calcium. I believe Mel touched on this earlier and it was already stated that it is not in our capabilities to determine that information.

Re: The dreaded "Diet Thread" and calcium

Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:06 pm
by Lucifer_Spades
ReptileKing wrote:
Lucifer_Spades wrote:While this is informative there are other factors to take into account as well.
for instence vitamin c while helping with iron absorption also decreases calcium availability. So depending on the amount of vitamin c rich food in the meal a certain amount of calcium is rendered useless thus changing the balance.

There are several other variables but those must wait til I am not trying to type on my phone.

Obviously you are correct. It would be improssible to determine the exact amount of calcium absorbed my the animal at home. However this was to help get a better idea of how much calcium would be needed and not to determine the absorbtion rate of calcium. I believe Mel touched on this earlier and it was already stated that it is not in our capabilities to determine that information.


True we can't determine exact absorption rates.
However, as this thread is also about diets in general it seems worth discussing that for instence dusting High viatamin C raspberries with calcium is a virtual waste of time as the viamin C will render the calcium useless. similarly mixing High C fruits in with the regular meal is going to lower the amount of calcium in the meal. However saving the high C foods for a snack on a later day will allow the calcium in the main meal absorb and then give them the dose of Vit C that is going to help with Iron absorbtion.

In addition it could be worthwhile to note that Calcium blocks the absorbtion of Iron and can bind up protien as well so feeding their proteins and High Iron foods with their high C foods rather then with the high calcium foods seems like a good move as well.

For example one might feed some Kale dusted with calcium on Mon, then feed Berries and Beefheart on Wed., and then feed egg either with shells or dusted with calcium on Friday.

Re: The dreaded "Diet Thread" and calcium

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:25 pm
by Kbell31
After reading this thread I am 100% positive it belongs in the Advanced Discussion Forum. :lol: