what is it like breeding bts?

[User01]

Hey bluetongueskinks.org,

I have been thinking about breeding blue tongue skinks as do my friend is selling a breeding pair!

But I have never breaded lizards before of any type, So I ask is it easy?

The only things I know so far is
*Females are aggressive/dominant when mating.
*They cant be kept in the same tank for long as do they fight?
*From the moment mum pops them out they fend for them selves

The reason I want to breed them is because I have seen they are very rare to get (new born's) and go for a lot of money

So would you say they are easy to breed?

Hope to hear some of your story's soon

-User

[EricaBobrik]

I've kept BTS for years and consider myself to still be learning a lot. I plan to breed my female in two years when she'll be over 4 years old. Before then I plan to have an entire room set up just for her, her mate and the little babies that will be coming out. Everything I've read says that each should be kept apart and none should be sold for at least a month to make sure that they are healthy. They all need heat and light so that will be around 20 cages, making sure that I have extra in case Cal produces more babies which is entirely possible.

That you want to breed a reptile when you never have before, especially one as unique as a BTS, partially because you think it's a way to make money is worrisome for me. When BTS breed it can be very violent. Look at youtube videos if you want examples. If possible I'd love to eventually breed mine in a spare room of my emergency vet's clinic so that he's there in case something does go wrong with the mating. You need to make sure you have hundreds of dollars saved up for possible vet care for the adults in case something goes wrong. You should anyway with a BTS. Vet care on a reptile isn't cheap. I love my dog and she's had her share of issues that required going to the vet but her bills are nothing compared to what a reptile's are when they get injured. Multiply that cost for the male if he gets hurt as well and any of the babies if they are injured. You won't be making lots of extra money here, especially not when you factor in 18 extra tanks that all need lights and feeding babies isn't cheap. Plus if the babies can't be sold right away, if you can't ship them, if there isn't any demand for whatever sub-species you are interested in getting- any of these factors can add up to you caring for those babies for a lot longer than you think. And no good breeder would sell newborns. There's no way to make sure that they're healthy. They can't be shipped and they don't have good histories of eating. Just because they don't need their mother to survive anymore doesn't mean they're ready to leave your care.

If I didn't have experience breeding Leopard Geckos, Crested Geckos, Gargoyle Geckos and Bearded Dragons before even considering breeding my BTS I would not have decided to. The only easy part about a BTS compared to breeding those is that they give birth to live young so you don't need to incubate any of the eggs. If you really want the experience of breeding reptiles I'd say get something that's more readily available. Leopard Geckos breed like crazy, are inexpensive and popular.Get something that isn't as unique as a BTS. There aren't any new ones coming in from Australia and breeding BTS just to do so because you think it might be fun and a good way to make money isn't a good idea.

I can't stop you from trying if you want to do this but this is my opinion and you can take it for what its worth or completely ignore it. That's your choice.

[Richard.C]

First off, during mating period usually the males the agressor,though some females can get defensive,usually its when there window is closed and males are still trying

Theres many species of bluetongue,some easier to breed than others,some are more expensive than others ,imports and the common variety you wont be pulling in alot of money in breeding them

Thats if you cycle them properly and in sync with each other

What species does your friend have

[User01]

I've kept BTS for years and consider myself to still be learning a lot. I plan to breed my female in two years when she'll be over 4 years old. Before then I plan to have an entire room set up just for her, her mate and the little babies that will be coming out. Everything I've read says that each should be kept apart and none should be sold for at least a month to make sure that they are healthy. They all need heat and light so that will be around 20 cages, making sure that I have extra in case Cal produces more babies which is entirely possible.

That you want to breed a reptile when you never have before, especially one as unique as a BTS, partially because you think it's a way to make money is worrisome for me. When BTS breed it can be very violent. Look at youtube videos if you want examples. If possible I'd love to eventually breed mine in a spare room of my emergency vet's clinic so that he's there in case something does go wrong with the mating. You need to make sure you have hundreds of dollars saved up for possible vet care for the adults in case something goes wrong. You should anyway with a BTS. Vet care on a reptile isn't cheap. I love my dog and she's had her share of issues that required going to the vet but her bills are nothing compared to what a reptile's are when they get injured. Multiply that cost for the male if he gets hurt as well and any of the babies if they are injured. You won't be making lots of extra money here, especially not when you factor in 18 extra tanks that all need lights and feeding babies isn't cheap. Plus if the babies can't be sold right away, if you can't ship them, if there isn't any demand for whatever sub-species you are interested in getting- any of these factors can add up to you caring for those babies for a lot longer than you think. And no good breeder would sell newborns. There's no way to make sure that they're healthy. They can't be shipped and they don't have good histories of eating. Just because they don't need their mother to survive anymore doesn't mean they're ready to leave your care.

If I didn't have experience breeding Leopard Geckos, Crested Geckos, Gargoyle Geckos and Bearded Dragons before even considering breeding my BTS I would not have decided to. The only easy part about a BTS compared to breeding those is that they give birth to live young so you don't need to incubate any of the eggs. If you really want the experience of breeding reptiles I'd say get something that's more readily available. Leopard Geckos breed like crazy, are inexpensive and popular.Get something that isn't as unique as a BTS. There aren't any new ones coming in from Australia and breeding BTS just to do so because you think it might be fun and a good way to make money isn't a good idea.

I can't stop you from trying if you want to do this but this is my opinion and you can take it for what its worth or completely ignore it. That's your choice.

Hey EricaBobrik,

Wow a whole room just for her? That is one lucky lady , I never took that in mind I thought I could house them all in one tank (the babies) I know adults would fight I would not think the babies would? (Just a thought you could just buy one lonnnnnnnnnnnng tank and make selections, like a jail only with heat *Just a thought*)

My last lizard was a bearded dragon, But I have never breed any sort of animal to be true! Gosh I feel so bad >.< I did not know how to write this out so I just tried my best, I do not want to breed them for profit. I want to breed as do I find them so hard and so much money just to get one! Like am in London I know a shop and they said "They will sell me a baby bts for £210, just for one baby? o_O and the breeding pair my friend has said I could get it for £400" If I breed bts I promise you I don't want to make profit I want to breed them so more people could have one.. I find it silly how such a lizard can go for $50-$600 At the end of the day its a animal which needs love and care .
Ah yes I have seen dose and I have seen images on "http://bluetongueskinks.net/care.htm" Where it shows a female kicked a male in the balls , When I had my bearded dragon he hurt his leg (not sure how it happen) and the vet bill was about $150 o_O That's why when I get my bts am sure to get pet cover!.. Yes I understand that My dog had ear infections and well they never come to $150 not even close! When you put it like that yes I am losing money and don't forget that electricity bill at the end :l. That is true! But that is the risk of breeding right? Its like 50/50. Here is something to ask. If you breed and the baby was not eating and such would you need to take them to the vets? Or would they be to youth for that?

*Funny fact I was going to ask how do you keep the eggs healthy but then I remembered I was thinking about snakes lol*

That is all so true I can buy a Bearded Dragon for just $5 I even know shops which would do 3 Bearded Dragons for $15 as do there are so many

That is why I want a BTS as they are so unique, and I love there dirt *If you look around in the ads part you would see my post about asking for bts baby's also on many many many lizard ad sites "See a post about buying bts babies in the UK? 95% that was me who posted it "*

Like I said I don't want to breed for money I want to breed so I can help the community more, Help dose who really really want one

Its still 50/50 to be true, Just the thing that puts me off is the fact this would be my first bts.

Thanks
-User

[User01]

First off, during mating period usually the males the agressor,though some females can get defensive,usually its when there window is closed and males are still trying

Theres many species of bluetongue,some easier to breed than others,some are more expensive than others ,imports and the common variety you wont be pulling in alot of money in breeding them

Thats if you cycle them properly and in sync with each other

What species does your friend have

Hey Richard.C

What do you mean by sync with each other?

My friend said "I have 1.1 breeder pair tiliqua scincoides for sale. man has slight back on combustion. All no problem."



I never did ask.. Do BTS breed whenever they like or is it a timed thing?

Thanks
-User

[EricaBobrik]

I'm glad you're still thinking about it instead of jumping right in and deciding to breed and then trying to get information after they've already mated.

When I said she'd get her own room I meant that she would be in her 40g breeder (probably upgrading her to a 4ft x 4ftx cage at that point though, and the male would have the same size enclosure. Each baby would be started in a 10g. I've seen too many baby BTS and other baby reptiles with bitten tails or injured legs to risk keeping them all together. It can be done but I'm going for safety and choosing not to. If you have any of the babies longer than a month or two they need to be upgraded to a 20g.

Here every reptile store has IJ BTS. They may not know what sub-species they are but they have them. And I saw an IJ with enclosure on craigslist last week for $65. If you want to make any kind of profit you need to have good quality animals to start with. Pet stores may take mixed BTS but you wouldn't be helping the population by breeding them. Your female will only have one litter, it's not like dragons that have 40 eggs every other month and by the end of the breeding season you have 300 babies from two females. I did that one season with a friend's trio. I'd never do it again. So you have one chance to get everything right for that season. And at any time that breeding could seriously hurt your BTS.

You need to decide if the subspecies you want to breed is needed, if the animals are worth producing more of, and if you can keep multiple babies if they aren't all taken right away. Also having someone that has produced multiple litters of BTS and can be there for you would be vital.

[EricaBobrik]

So he has easterns? Has he proven that they're a pair? Have they produced? And I'm not sure what you mean by something with the male's back. I'd be very wary of breeding an animal with anything physically wrong with them simply because it might be genetic. Also, from what I understand BTS must be cooled and then they will hopefully breed when they come out of it. So it's not an all the time, anytime type of thing like it seems to be with some animals.

[xxmonitorlizardxx]

So he has easterns?

He could possibly have Northerns

[EricaBobrik]

True.

[Fatal_S]

Just want to add that babies can and will kill each other, just like adults do. They don't always do it, but even newborns can hurt each other if you leave them alone. I originally tried keeping babies in one large tank together. They had several hides and food available 24/7. They attacked each other overnight. The weakest baby (probably wouldn't have survived long anyways) had it's tail removed and eaten. Several other babies had minor injuries. Now I play it safe and separate my babies from day 1, only allowed together when supervised. Not allowed together at all if there's food involved - food turns mine into killers.

Other breeders keep babies together. Some people keep adults together. This is just my experience and opinion.

[EricaBobrik]

That's my fear and why I won't be keeping my babies together. It's too much risk for me to take.

[User01]

I'm glad you're still thinking about it instead of jumping right in and deciding to breed and then trying to get information after they've already mated.

When I said she'd get her own room I meant that she would be in her 40g breeder (probably upgrading her to a 4ft x 4ftx cage at that point though, and the male would have the same size enclosure. Each baby would be started in a 10g. I've seen too many baby BTS and other baby reptiles with bitten tails or injured legs to risk keeping them all together. It can be done but I'm going for safety and choosing not to. If you have any of the babies longer than a month or two they need to be upgraded to a 20g.

Here every reptile store has IJ BTS. They may not know what sub-species they are but they have them. And I saw an IJ with enclosure on craigslist last week for $65. If you want to make any kind of profit you need to have good quality animals to start with. Pet stores may take mixed BTS but you wouldn't be helping the population by breeding them. Your female will only have one litter, it's not like dragons that have 40 eggs every other month and by the end of the breeding season you have 300 babies from two females. I did that one season with a friend's trio. I'd never do it again. So you have one chance to get everything right for that season. And at any time that breeding could seriously hurt your BTS.

You need to decide if the subspecies you want to breed is needed, if the animals are worth producing more of, and if you can keep multiple babies if they aren't all taken right away. Also having someone that has produced multiple litters of BTS and can be there for you would be vital.

Thank you Right now my setup only has one tank as do I was only going to get one baby bts but then my friend said he would sell his breeding pair so now it just makes me think...

Why not just buy 20g that why in case you have leftovers you don't need to upgrade? Reptile shops here know there breeds but they sell for such high prices I only know one shop that has some baby's leftover and they ask for $250 each! When you say good quality do you mean like a healthy pair or more unique like?

Yes that is true, It would cost a lot to keep 18 bts babies if there are no buyers.. But again it deepens what people want as like me I want a BTS any breed but must be a baby.

So he has easterns? Has he proven that they're a pair? Have they produced? And I'm not sure what you mean by something with the male's back. I'd be very wary of breeding an animal with anything physically wrong with them simply because it might be genetic. Also, from what I understand BTS must be cooled and then they will hopefully breed when they come out of it. So it's not an all the time, anytime type of thing like it seems to be with some animals.

@ xxmonitorlizardxx

I will contact him to ask more about the breed and such, Like I said my setup was only built to house one bts. Yes they come as a pair not sure if they have produced do, Ah good point! I will be sure to ask about that. I was told bts breed May-July so I thought it can only be done around then.

Just want to add that babies can and will kill each other, just like adults do. They don't always do it, but even newborns can hurt each other if you leave them alone. I originally tried keeping babies in one large tank together. They had several hides and food available 24/7. They attacked each other overnight. The weakest baby (probably wouldn't have survived long anyways) had it's tail removed and eaten. Several other babies had minor injuries. Now I play it safe and separate my babies from day 1, only allowed together when supervised. Not allowed together at all if there's food involved - food turns mine into killers.

Other breeders keep babies together. Some people keep adults together. This is just my experience and opinion.

I find that interesting, I mean they were just born and all really they kill? Faster learners or just born to kill I guess huh?

Fatal_S Here is a question for you, Lets say you separate them and the weakest one lived (over night) But it is still weak. You knowing its weak do you still try and "sell" it off?


Question: When you put the bts breeding pair together, How long would you live them in there for? Till they are done? I mean they could mate more then once?

Thanks
-User

[EricaBobrik]

I won't be putting them all in 20g to start because doubling the tank size means more heat and uv as well as a lot more room. 10g is fine for a baby bts. Most baby reptiles that eat insects will attack each other when food is around. It's instinct. Tails look like worms, fingers look like crickets. It's easy for them to make that mistake.

Don't leave them in together unsupervised and remove as soon as they separate themselves. Every breeder is different but if I had a weaker or injured animal I'd either keep it and raise it myself or adopt it out to someone that I knew that would keep it as a pet. I wouldn't sell it and even if I did charge the new owner it wouldn't be at full price.

The last time I was in the UK I wasn't looking at skinks but 250 seems high for most of the pet store animals I've seen. I don't know what the import laws are for the UK but the Germany show isn't too far away from you (much closer than it is to me in the US) and you'd be able to find some great skinks there.

By breeding quality I was referring to healthy animals with pure bloodlines, breeders you can contact to verify an animal's health and purity, animals with good markings and that are old enough to breed but still young enough that producing a litter won't overly tax the female. I believe if you're going to breed an animal there needs to be a reason that you're going to bring more of the same into the world. Producing more high quality animals to keep the gene pool going with strong bloodlines and exceptional animals is one thing. Producing a skink just to do so is completely different. But that's my opinion. To me its the difference between champion AKC bloodlines in a Labrador puppy and getting a pair of labs off craigslist. Yes, they're both going to produce labs but there's a quality difference and an ethics difference that justifies the higher price tag of the champion bloodlines if I was going to breed dogs, at least for myself.

My skink, Cal, was a great deal. For her quality I would have paid much more. She was around $150 at 6 months old which is very reasonable. For an adult male to match her in two years I plan to spend at least double that to find an animal. To me that's reasonable and to be expected.

[Fatal_S]

First off, a usual litter is 8-10 babies. Sometimes only one. Once in a while up to 17 or 18. Have tanks and supplies ready for 20 babies, but be happy to get 5.

Second, a good pair starts with two healthy animals from the same species. There are over a dozen types of BTS. You need two of the same type if you want to make babies that are worth anything at all. The female must be in excellent health, and neither should have any genetic weaknesses.

When breeding you put them together and sit there watching the whole time. You do not leave them alone, and you have to be ready to get bitten if you need to pull them apart. You are responsible for keeping them safe, and breeding is a dangerous time. The number of things that can go wrong is astounding, and you need to be 100% ready for it. What happens if your new male can't deflate his hemipenes, bites them, and starts bleeding out everywhere? Or the female kicks him and yet again there's blood everywhere and surgery needed? Or the male grabs a leg instead of the shoulder and starts shaking her limb apart? These are things that happen.Hopefully everything goes smoothly, but breeding should never be taken lightly.

Depending on the species they may mate only one a day, or may be able to mate multiple times. Again, you need to find out the species of this "pair".

If the weakest one had survived the night he'd have gone to the reptile vet to find out why he was so weak and he would have been treated. I only sell top-notch healthy babies. The well being of the animals is most important, money and quick-sales mean nothing. I have a few right now that are healthy, but just smaller than their siblings, so I'm keeping them until they're bigger. I do not "sell" off any babies; I have great babies available for great homes looking for them. I am not saying this is how it has to be, but this the type of breeder I am. Think show-dog breeder instead of backyard breeder or puppy-mill.

Honestly, the weak baby probably died first, and the siblings just went for an easy meal. And the fighting between the healthy siblings was probably competition over the best food. The injuries were all minor scrapes, but it could have been much worse.

We can always use more CBB blue tongues, but from great breeders truly dedicated to making healthy, amazing babies.

[EricaBobrik]

Fatal, I'm grateful that there are breeders like you out there doing their best to make sure that BTS in general stay as healthy and strong as possible.

[Fatal_S]

Thank you, but I learned my ways from some truly amazing breeders who really inspire me to try to be as great as they are The BTS community is so lucky in that so many of our top breeders happen to be truly amazing people who care so much about the individual animals the species as a whole. BTS people rock.

[Richard.C]

By syncing them they need a winter cycle for reproduction,females wont ovulate and males wont get the testicular growth needed to reproduce successfully

Generally mating is in spring after a winter cooling,though some tropical forms actually mate in there cool season

Some forms u need to wake the males ten to 14 days earlier than the females so they can shed first which is nessacary for mating,wake them together and female is ready before male and by the time hes ready,shes shut down for the year

They arent like rats and mice,which just breed willy nilly

They need cycling,they need to be fattened up before cool down,especially females

Id suggest keeping them seperate as well,its not just mating time either sex can get aggressive,scincoides types being the most aggressive of the lot

Id be asking myself why is he selling a good breeding pair,have they actually bred,and how do they cycle them ect ect

[Fatal_S]

Also, the breeding, get babies, housing, heating, etc, is all easy. IMO the most annoying part about breeding is feeding the babies -.-' Tiny little mouths need tiny portions of food cut up into even tinier pieces, every day I'm lazy, so spending an hour every day just feeding babies (ignoring all the cleaning, handling/socializing, and caring for other critters) kills me.

[User01]

I won't be putting them all in 20g to start because doubling the tank size means more heat and uv as well as a lot more room. 10g is fine for a baby bts. Most baby reptiles that eat insects will attack each other when food is around. It's instinct. Tails look like worms, fingers look like crickets. It's easy for them to make that mistake.

Don't leave them in together unsupervised and remove as soon as they separate themselves. Every breeder is different but if I had a weaker or injured animal I'd either keep it and raise it myself or adopt it out to someone that I knew that would keep it as a pet. I wouldn't sell it and even if I did charge the new owner it wouldn't be at full price.

The last time I was in the UK I wasn't looking at skinks but 250 seems high for most of the pet store animals I've seen. I don't know what the import laws are for the UK but the Germany show isn't too far away from you (much closer than it is to me in the US) and you'd be able to find some great skinks there.

By breeding quality I was referring to healthy animals with pure bloodlines, breeders you can contact to verify an animal's health and purity, animals with good markings and that are old enough to breed but still young enough that producing a litter won't overly tax the female. I believe if you're going to breed an animal there needs to be a reason that you're going to bring more of the same into the world. Producing more high quality animals to keep the gene pool going with strong bloodlines and exceptional animals is one thing. Producing a skink just to do so is completely different. But that's my opinion. To me its the difference between champion AKC bloodlines in a Labrador puppy and getting a pair of labs off craigslist. Yes, they're both going to produce labs but there's a quality difference and an ethics difference that justifies the higher price tag of the champion bloodlines if I was going to breed dogs, at least for myself.

My skink, Cal, was a great deal. For her quality I would have paid much more. She was around $150 at 6 months old which is very reasonable. For an adult male to match her in two years I plan to spend at least double that to find an animal. To me that's reasonable and to be expected.

Good point.

Its good to hear that you would not put down a weak lizard I would do the same!

Its crazy right? Last night I found a site (A pet shop) It said "Blue tongue skinks for only £99" I was like WOW! I phoned them and they said "Sorry but our bts go for £250 as do they are captured breaded" I hate when sites do that and get my hopes up :l I know of breeders in Germany its just they don't post they feel selling local is better.

I must ask how many breeding pairs do you have right now?

First off, a usual litter is 8-10 babies. Sometimes only one. Once in a while up to 17 or 18. Have tanks and supplies ready for 20 babies, but be happy to get 5.

Second, a good pair starts with two healthy animals from the same species. There are over a dozen types of BTS. You need two of the same type if you want to make babies that are worth anything at all. The female must be in excellent health, and neither should have any genetic weaknesses.

When breeding you put them together and sit there watching the whole time. You do not leave them alone, and you have to be ready to get bitten if you need to pull them apart. You are responsible for keeping them safe, and breeding is a dangerous time. The number of things that can go wrong is astounding, and you need to be 100% ready for it. What happens if your new male can't deflate his hemipenes, bites them, and starts bleeding out everywhere? Or the female kicks him and yet again there's blood everywhere and surgery needed? Or the male grabs a leg instead of the shoulder and starts shaking her limb apart? These are things that happen.Hopefully everything goes smoothly, but breeding should never be taken lightly.

Depending on the species they may mate only one a day, or may be able to mate multiple times. Again, you need to find out the species of this "pair".

If the weakest one had survived the night he'd have gone to the reptile vet to find out why he was so weak and he would have been treated. I only sell top-notch healthy babies. The well being of the animals is most important, money and quick-sales mean nothing. I have a few right now that are healthy, but just smaller than their siblings, so I'm keeping them until they're bigger. I do not "sell" off any babies; I have great babies available for great homes looking for them. I am not saying this is how it has to be, but this the type of breeder I am. Think show-dog breeder instead of backyard breeder or puppy-mill.

Honestly, the weak baby probably died first, and the siblings just went for an easy meal. And the fighting between the healthy siblings was probably competition over the best food. The injuries were all minor scrapes, but it could have been much worse.

We can always use more CBB blue tongues, but from great breeders truly dedicated to making healthy, amazing babies.

I would be happy with just one! Just means I have done well and they have mated.

What would happen if you mix'd bts? Would they not mate at all?

Its good to hear that everyone on this site takes care of there babies and dose not sell them off for a quick buck .. Much better then pets at home lol

By syncing them they need a winter cycle for reproduction,females wont ovulate and males wont get the testicular growth needed to reproduce successfully

Generally mating is in spring after a winter cooling,though some tropical forms actually mate in there cool season

Some forms u need to wake the males ten to 14 days earlier than the females so they can shed first which is nessacary for mating,wake them together and female is ready before male and by the time hes ready,shes shut down for the year

They arent like rats and mice,which just breed willy nilly

They need cycling,they need to be fattened up before cool down,especially females

Id suggest keeping them seperate as well,its not just mating time either sex can get aggressive,scincoides types being the most aggressive of the lot

Id be asking myself why is he selling a good breeding pair,have they actually bred,and how do they cycle them ect ect

"They arent like rats and mice,which just breed willy nilly" Explains why I don't see many around.

Fattened up? For some reason bts remind me of bears now lol, I saw a Youtube video about bts breeding and it seems when they breed the male bites the female?

Also, the breeding, get babies, housing, heating, etc, is all easy. IMO the most annoying part about breeding is feeding the babies -.-' Tiny little mouths need tiny portions of food cut up into even tinier pieces, every day I'm lazy, so spending an hour every day just feeding babies (ignoring all the cleaning, handling/socializing, and caring for other critters) kills me.

Wording... Could you not just blend it up and make it like a soup?


Just want to say sorry for my late replays never got the email notify, Also dose who keep asking about the breeding pair sadly my friend sold them 500. So I never really got the breed or anything else about them..

Also I have some new questions to ask.

1, How do you make a breeding pair? Lets say I get a baby bts (male/female (If its a baby its unsex right?) and I raise it bla bla bla.. And I feel I want to breed him/her how would I go about finding it a mate?
I know one fact is I would need a healthy same specie but dose age matter here? Also what if I put them together and they hate each other, Would that mean I would need a new lizard or is there a way around that?

2, How would you introduce them? When my friend was breeding hamsters he would put the cages face to face so they can meet and such but not fight etc.. Would that be the same with lizards?


Thanks everyone who replays here

I love hearing your story's of your bts and how well you breed them

-User

[donkeybuff]

I think Fatal was trying to say that babies are not only expensive, but they take lots of time and effort to care for as well.