Huffing and handler fear

[brettmallard]

Hello. I've had my beautiful Kei Island BT going on a full month and have yet to handle him since I got him. He huffs at me and scatters whenever I try to handle him. I've never been bitten by a reptile and that fear is preventing me from powering through the huffing and just picking him up.

He has gotten very comfortable with my hand in the enclosure and comes to investigate whenever I reach in with food, water, misting, spot cleaning, etc. But will huff if I move towards him.

Please help me. I need support and comfort of my own that if I just reach and pick him up that I'm not going to get bitten and lose an arm. Lol

I so want to build a bond with him and spend time handling him and need some moral support and suggestions.

[kingofnobbys]

he's very likely wild caught and trafficked to the usa, so he's a lot more scared of you than you are of him. He's been traumatized by the experience and has learnt humans are bad from it.

Patience and time and lots of food bribes (treats you know he'll like ie worms , bits of berry , etc offer when ever you go near to attempt to handle him) are keys to gaining his trust and taming him.

I suggest if he backs off …. give him space and just let him see you not going to force yourself on him or chase him about his tank (he only sees a huge looming creature and a pair of terrifying five headed snake-monsters coming at him.

Spend lots of time near his tank and let him study you, see you spot cleaning , replacing water , replacing food , and maybe pick times when he's relaxed and sleepy to steal a pat . I might take a few months but he should come round and warm to you once he decides you not going to hurt him/eat him.
Eventually when you place a hand in his tank were he can see with a appetizing food item sitting on you upturned open hand , he will just amble up and take the food , when this happens , most your battle has been won as he will have shown he trusts you enough to a food gift from you.

[splashy07]

Sometimes Keis and Tanimbars can be a bit feisty. The importation process is not kind to them, and they are less likely to be calm than some of the other imports. Time and patience, he has to re-learn the whole human experience.
Indonesians are legally imported here, not 'trafficked'. But that does not change the fact that he could mis-trust humans for a while.

[kingofnobbys]

Sometimes Keis and Tanimbars can be a bit feisty. The importation process is not kind to them, and they are less likely to be calm than some of the other imports. Time and patience, he has to re-learn the whole human experience.
Indonesians are legally imported here, not 'trafficked'. But that does not change the fact that he could mis-trust humans for a while.

Actually - it is illegal to take from the wild and export native animals from any country in SE Asia (including Indonesia) and Pacific island nations, the problem persists because law enforcement is unable to inspect every parcel, every item of luggage , every ship thoroughly , and there are law enforcement and customs officers and politicans who take bribes to look the other way and some are thoroughly involved for the "easy" money .
https://www.unodc.org/documents/toc/Rep ... AP_c07.pdf

The illegal wildlife trade (in SE Asia including Indonesia) is a lucrative business that involves a diverse range of actors, from rural harvesters, professional hunters, intermediate traders, wholesalers and retailers to final consumers and users.41
Illegal wildlife trade chains may be as simple as individual consumers making direct contact with specialty suppliers or it may involve networks of global scales. Long-distance movements of high-value wildlife require the involvement of a wide range of brokers, middle-men and shippers who are not necessarily wildlife traders but rather experts in the contraband of illegal goods, including drugs.
Individuals involved may include domestic and international specialists instorage, handling, transport, processing, packaging, exporting, marketing, security and retailing. Various participants may handle ‘official’ expenditures (such as purchasing permits and paying fines), and ‘unofficial’ expenditures (bribes).
They may also provide loans against future delivery of wildlife.42

The involvement of organized criminal networks dealing in illegal wildlife in other crimes (e.g., drug trafficking, human trafficking, etc.) is difficult to ascertain.
While there are sporadic reports of convergence of wildlife crime with drug trafficking and alleged human trafficking, such incidence at this stage is considered occasional and largely opportunistic.
In fact, the trade in wildlife is very specialized and it requires skills – such as species identification and animal handling – that are not immediately transferrable to other crime areas. Furthermore,
many specialized wildlife traffickers tend to engage in this business because it has potential for high profit margins with low-risk involvement. Nevertheless, large scale trafficking operations in high-value wildlife do require a range of brokers and middle-men who may be involved in other forms of contraband. For them, wildlife trade may not be the primary illicit activity, but rather an additional income at relatively low risk.
The illegal wildlife trade is probably best understood as a collection of specialized sub-disciplines – each one accompanied by its own smuggling methods, trafficking routes and markets. These are not generally centrally controlled by a single leader,but they do involve informal reciprocity.

The illegal wildlife trade in the Pacific region is reportedly well organized by opportunistic criminal networks and unscrupulous traders.

The illegal wildlife trade includes reptiles, birds, marine species and wild orchids.50
The Oceania Customs Organisation (OCO) reported 55 seizures of wildlife products in 2010. CITES data for the Pacific Islands report 374 seizures from 2005 to2009. Most seizures were reported by Fiji with 56 and 76 seizure cases destined for New Zealand and the United States respectively.
The Solomon Islands is reported to be a wildlife laundering hub for other Pacific countries.

In short , unless your pet skink , snake , gecko or dragon can be proven to be captive bred from stock which also comes from captive breeding going back several generation (to the 70s or 80s) , it's more than likely ( I'd say certain ) it's been taken from the wild illegal and trafficked by criminals and illegally.

[brettmallard]

I'm fairly confident that he is captive born. I got him from New England Reptile Distributors which is a very reliable and respected reptile dealer. They told that they obtain their Kei Island Blueys from a breeder in Java that they have a relationship with. They are babies when sold. Terrance was six months old when I got him though. They had him for a while as he was considered imperfect (a kink in his tail) but he is perfect to me if I can get over my fears of handling and moving past the huffing. He is much better about me in the tank and will come right over to my hand for superworms and treats but will hiss if I move towards him to pick him up. Lol. Just need to conquer my fear. Great advise from everyone and I will just be patient and try some of the tricks that have been suggested.

[kingofnobbys]

I'm fairly confident that he is captive born. I got him from New England Reptile Distributors which is a very reliable and respected reptile dealer. They told that they obtain their Kei Island Blueys from a breeder in Java that they have a relationship with. They are babies when sold. Terrance was six months old when I got him though. They had him for a while as he was considered imperfect (a kink in his tail) but he is perfect to me if I can get over my fears of handling and moving past the huffing. He is much better about me in the tank and will come right over to my hand for superworms and treats but will hiss if I move towards him to pick him up. Lol. Just need to conquer my fear. Great advise from everyone and I will just be patient and try some of the tricks that have been suggested.

I hope you are and you have been told the truth. BUT my understanding is that reptile exports from and to Indonesia are strickly prohibited and unless you've seen the breeding facility in person it's most likely all the reptiles coming from the "Javanese "breeder"" are all wild caught / poached.
There are plenty of captive Indo and Pacific Is BTS in the USA and EU in the hands of keepers and legitimate breeders and no viable legal reason to import (even captive bred) specimens to sell in the local pet trade.... the costs of shipping and very hard to obtain and expensive export licences / permits (from Pacific Island nations and SE Asian nations incl Indonesia , make this prohibively expensive per specimen , as does the express livestock air freight costs. You'd be looking at maybe $2000 per specimen to cover the costs ( ref to recent ABC 4Corners program in this ).

I doubt you paid over $100 for your BT.

Irrespective , none of that is your fault , enjoy your new scalely friend and be kind to him and he will very likely learn to trust you and tame up OK , he may even become a very friendly and affectionate pet eventually. BTS snuggles are wonderful and yes they do show affection and will seek you out. Our skinks and dragons like to play musical humans too, ie spend a bit of time with me then with my wife and will crawl from one to the other .
I know this can be done as I've had 3 rescues (all injured wild skinks who I nursed back to health, who all became mega tame and super friendly and affectionate over the last 10 years .

[splashy07]

If that were true there would not be a single pet store selling reptiles in the US. Captive bred reptiles in pet shops are a rarity. We would have no exotics at all over here if not for imports. I'm not saying I agree with some of the practices, I don't think keepers of imported animals should have to deal with all the negativity. How can we breed an exotic in captivity if it wasn't imported in the first place? I will not comment on this subject again, and I urge those looking for blueys to save up the few extra bucks to buy from a breeder, and proven not just someone who says so. The more cbb the less negativity.

[smosroka]

I doubt you paid over $100 for your BT.

So this is totally nitpicking, but just for the future, in my experience juvenile skinks don't really go for less than 200-250 USD equivalent outside of Australia. And that's for Indonesian species/subspecies. Northern babies will typically be 300 USD or equivalent upward. Easterns are still a little bit more expensive and as for the rest of the aussie mainland species you'll be lucky to find any for sale at all.




As for op's actual question. Right now you are afraid of your lizard and your lizard is afraid of you and the arrangement is not very beneficial for either. Here is your pep talk then!

1) You shouldn't really handle a wild animal if you aren't feeling calm and confident. A lizard doesn't really get human emotions, but it knows if you are all tense you might be a Potentially Dangerous Giant Monster and a hungry one at that. Meanwhile your goal is to present yourself as a Giant Monster that is harmless, warm, rather comfy and whose visits mean food.
2) To that end you could consider wearing gloves if that will make you feel safer and more relaxed, but trying to make the 'i am big and scary and wILL bITE hissss' posturing not happen is what you want to be aiming at in the long run.
3) How are you trying to handle it? Do not grab your wild lizard from above, that's what small animals are afraid of, especially babies. Being grabbed from above is basically a prelude to being eaten. They don't really like being loomed over either.
4) Instead, (after making sure you've washed your hands and don't smell like food) try to put your hand flat on the ground where the lizard sees it and slowly inch it towards the animal. Ideally you will be able to touch its leg or even coax it to partially or fully step onto your hand. This way you are kinda scooping it up instead of grabbing. If it hisses or runs away - ah well, maybe next time. It might take some patience, but this way I have been able to touch random garden lizards on occasion (admittedly unrelated to skinks and flighty rather than bitey)
5) If that helps at all, bts are snail murder machines and pinch rather than tear, so it might hurt a bit and you can end up with a bruise, but even if you do get yourself bitten it won't be a blood-gushing-everywhere-urgently-needs-five-stitches experience

[kingofnobbys]

I doubt you paid over $100 for your BT.

So this is totally nitpicking, but just for the future, in my experience juvenile skinks don't really go for less than 200-250 USD equivalent outside of Australia. And that's for Indonesian species/subspecies. Northern babies will typically be 300 USD or equivalent upward. Easterns are still a little bit more expensive and as for the rest of the aussie mainland species you'll be lucky to find any for sale at all.

Heck if Indo BTS and Northern BTS attract that much …. that's plenty of commercial incentive to breed these locally in captivity from existing breeding stock. There is no need to decimate wild populations in their native ranges .

[lunarisx]

I doubt you paid over $100 for your BT.

Lol I live in Java and because you guys are willing to pay high for any captive born all we have left is bunch of unsold Halmaheras. BTW his BTS are so beautiful that its impossible to be wild caught. We have local breeder here as well or just a bunch of amateur who breed BTS because the demand are so high.

[lunarisx]

He has gotten very comfortable with my hand in the enclosure and comes to investigate whenever I reach in with food, water, misting, spot cleaning, etc. But will huff if I move towards him.

Please help me. I need support and comfort of my own that if I just reach and pick him up that I'm not going to get bitten and lose an arm. Lol

Kei and Tanimbar BTS have reputation of having nasty personality. Just give some time and they will adapt.

[brettmallard]

Well after a few months all of your advice paid off. Patience, talking daily, keeping my hand in the tank and petting him under the chin. Terrance climbed up onto my hand today without any hissing and let me hold him. I played with him for about five minutes and then returned him to the safety of his enclosure. Thank you everyone.

[kingofnobbys]

May you both have a long and happy life together ….. seems his hooman slave training is coming on very well.

[brettmallard]

:)

May you both have a long and happy life together ….. seems his hooman slave training is coming on very well.

No kidding!