Mealworms

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Suzle87
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Mealworms

Postby Suzle87 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:41 am

I’m confused about the diet sheet, can anyone tell me the calcium phosphorus ratio of mealworms cuz it says 1:25... is this 1 to 25, 1 to .25, 1 to 2.5? 1 to 25 just doesn’t seem to make sense.
Probly just me being dumb!!
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Re: Mealworms

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:49 am

Suzle87 wrote:I’m confused about the diet sheet, can anyone tell me the calcium phosphorus ratio of mealworms cuz it says 1:25... is this 1 to 25, 1 to .25, 1 to 2.5? 1 to 25 just doesn’t seem to make sense.
Probly just me being dumb!!


Mealworms are very poor feeders
Ca/P about 1/20 …. very high in Phosphorus , which binds Calcium and makes it unavailable biologically.
They are are high in fat content , and their hard exoskeletops have been attributed to impactions .
Best used as bribes and treats , skinks do love them .
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Re: Mealworms

Postby Suzle87 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:50 pm

kingofnobbys wrote:
Suzle87 wrote:I’m confused about the diet sheet, can anyone tell me the calcium phosphorus ratio of mealworms cuz it says 1:25... is this 1 to 25, 1 to .25, 1 to 2.5? 1 to 25 just doesn’t seem to make sense.
Probly just me being dumb!!


Mealworms are very poor feeders
Ca/P about 1/20 …. very high in Phosphorus , which binds Calcium and makes it unavailable biologically.
They are are high in fat content , and their hard exoskeletops have been attributed to impactions .
Best used as bribes and treats , skinks do love them .

Ah right thanks for that, I got some today which he loved but I will use them just as treats as you suggest and give him some good doses of calcium in his next few meals.
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Re: Mealworms

Postby Suzle87 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:00 pm

Also while I’m on the subject, why is it suggested that silkworms can be fed regularly but are 1:3? Is it because of the amount of protein from them makes it worth the slightly poor ratio?
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Re: Mealworms

Postby kingofnobbys » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:46 pm

Suzle87 wrote:Also while I’m on the subject, why is it suggested that silkworms can be fed regularly but are 1:3? Is it because of the amount of protein from them makes it worth the slightly poor ratio?


My take on silkworms is :
>> slow moving
>> very nutritiuous
>> and mulberry leaves are very rich in calcium , so a silkworm full of fresh mulberry leaf is close to perfect as a live food staple , similar Ca/P as BSFL (1.52), some places /vendors say 1:2.4 … not sure what their basis is.
>> plus I've been "farming" my own silkworms continuously and year round for 6 years …. I always have about 1/4 of my silkworms become moths and I harvest the eggs and keep these in the fridge til I'm ready to hatch more, my only costs with silkworms is buying fresh mulberry leaves 200 at batch (which will last up to 2 months on the crisper and can be blanched and frozen for over winter, I rarely need to make silkworm chow).
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Re: Mealworms

Postby Suzle87 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:17 am

kingofnobbys wrote:
Suzle87 wrote:Also while I’m on the subject, why is it suggested that silkworms can be fed regularly but are 1:3? Is it because of the amount of protein from them makes it worth the slightly poor ratio?


My take on silkworms is :
>> slow moving
>> very nutritiuous
>> and mulberry leaves are very rich in calcium , so a silkworm full of fresh mulberry leaf is close to perfect as a live food staple , similar Ca/P as BSFL (1.52), some places /vendors say 1:2.4 … not sure what their basis is.
>> plus I've been "farming" my own silkworms continuously and year round for 6 years …. I always have about 1/4 of my silkworms become moths and I harvest the eggs and keep these in the fridge til I'm ready to hatch more, my only costs with silkworms is buying fresh mulberry leaves 200 at batch (which will last up to 2 months on the crisper and can be blanched and frozen for over winter, I rarely need to make silkworm chow).


Thanks for that. Sounds like you really have your own little eco system all worked out!! Not sure where I would get mulberry leaves from but I imagine I could get some silk worms and hit load them with calcium and good calcium/phosphorus greens and that should negate the negative ratio.
Thanks for all your help, Ventress appreciates it too!! :thumbs:
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Re: Mealworms

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:21 am

Suzle87 wrote:
kingofnobbys wrote:
Suzle87 wrote:Also while I’m on the subject, why is it suggested that silkworms can be fed regularly but are 1:3? Is it because of the amount of protein from them makes it worth the slightly poor ratio?


My take on silkworms is :
>> slow moving
>> very nutritiuous
>> and mulberry leaves are very rich in calcium , so a silkworm full of fresh mulberry leaf is close to perfect as a live food staple , similar Ca/P as BSFL (1.52), some places /vendors say 1:2.4 … not sure what their basis is.
>> plus I've been "farming" my own silkworms continuously and year round for 6 years …. I always have about 1/4 of my silkworms become moths and I harvest the eggs and keep these in the fridge til I'm ready to hatch more, my only costs with silkworms is buying fresh mulberry leaves 200 at batch (which will last up to 2 months on the crisper and can be blanched and frozen for over winter, I rarely need to make silkworm chow).


Thanks for that. Sounds like you really have your own little eco system all worked out!! Not sure where I would get mulberry leaves from but I imagine I could get some silk worms and hit load them with calcium and good calcium/phosphorus greens and that should negate the negative ratio.
Thanks for all your help, Ventress appreciates it too!! :thumbs:


If it's anything like here (Australia) , mulberry trees are in every older suburb and village and park , when I was a kid lots of people had a big Hick's (black) mulberry tree in the backyard, and they were commonly found along farm road and in public parks .
People grew them for the berries (great for making jams, pies, tarts, icecreams & sorbets, and for the shade they provide in summer. I remember as a kid walking down lanes and collecting buckets full of ripe mulberries and pigging out on berries straight off the tree , and sometimes the owners invited the local kids to come into the yard and take as many berries as they wanted.

Black , red and white mulberry tree leaves are all suitable to feed to silkworms , silkworm chow is simply vacuum dried and pulverized mulberry leaves. This is a good food for silkworms too, I've raised a few generations of silkworms from egg to moth on silkworm chow - the trick is to make only enough to feed the worms for a few weeks , and refrigerate it once nuked .
It keeps for months in fridge if you wrap in gladwrap while still hot.

Took seconds to find this source of mulberry leaves in the UK - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fresh-Organi ... SwW9xbACOp or http://www.silkwormstore.co.uk/silkworm-food.html
h

Nutritional content in mulberry leaves see https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... s.2013.e36
The chemical composition of mulberry leaves is comparable with those of leguminous forages and trees such as lucerne and leucaena (Smith, 1994 SmithO.B. 1994. Using fodder from trees and shrubs to feed livestock in the tropics. Better Farming Series N. 42. FAO Publ., Roma, Italy.[Google Scholar]; FAO, 1998 FAO, 1998. Tropical feeds, 8th ed. FAO Publ., Roma, Italy.[Google Scholar]), especially the protein content. The ratio of Ca:P in mulberry leaves was found to be 10:1,


I order 200 leaves (two big plastic bags full) , and a very good consignment .
- I'd suggest having the seller send by express post so the leaves arrive within a few days.
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Re: Mealworms

Postby Suzle87 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:10 am

kingofnobbys wrote:
Suzle87 wrote:
kingofnobbys wrote:
My take on silkworms is :
>> slow moving
>> very nutritiuous
>> and mulberry leaves are very rich in calcium , so a silkworm full of fresh mulberry leaf is close to perfect as a live food staple , similar Ca/P as BSFL (1.52), some places /vendors say 1:2.4 … not sure what their basis is.
>> plus I've been "farming" my own silkworms continuously and year round for 6 years …. I always have about 1/4 of my silkworms become moths and I harvest the eggs and keep these in the fridge til I'm ready to hatch more, my only costs with silkworms is buying fresh mulberry leaves 200 at batch (which will last up to 2 months on the crisper and can be blanched and frozen for over winter, I rarely need to make silkworm chow).


Thanks for that. Sounds like you really have your own little eco system all worked out!! Not sure where I would get mulberry leaves from but I imagine I could get some silk worms and hit load them with calcium and good calcium/phosphorus greens and that should negate the negative ratio.
Thanks for all your help, Ventress appreciates it too!! :thumbs:


If it's anything like here (Australia) , mulberry trees are in every older suburb and village and park , when I was a kid lots of people had a big Hick's (black) mulberry tree in the backyard, and they were commonly found along farm road and in public parks .
People grew them for the berries (great for making jams, pies, tarts, icecreams & sorbets, and for the shade they provide in summer. I remember as a kid walking down lanes and collecting buckets full of ripe mulberries and pigging out on berries straight off the tree , and sometimes the owners invited the local kids to come into the yard and take as many berries as they wanted.

Black , red and white mulberry tree leaves are all suitable to feed to silkworms , silkworm chow is simply vacuum dried and pulverized mulberry leaves. This is a good food for silkworms too, I've raised a few generations of silkworms from egg to moth on silkworm chow - the trick is to make only enough to feed the worms for a few weeks , and refrigerate it once nuked .
It keeps for months in fridge if you wrap in gladwrap while still hot.

Took seconds to find this source of mulberry leaves in the UK - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fresh-Organi ... SwW9xbACOp or http://www.silkwormstore.co.uk/silkworm-food.html
h

Nutritional content in mulberry leaves see https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... s.2013.e36
The chemical composition of mulberry leaves is comparable with those of leguminous forages and trees such as lucerne and leucaena (Smith, 1994 SmithO.B. 1994. Using fodder from trees and shrubs to feed livestock in the tropics. Better Farming Series N. 42. FAO Publ., Roma, Italy.[Google Scholar]; FAO, 1998 FAO, 1998. Tropical feeds, 8th ed. FAO Publ., Roma, Italy.[Google Scholar]), especially the protein content. The ratio of Ca:P in mulberry leaves was found to be 10:1,


I order 200 leaves (two big plastic bags full) , and a very good consignment .
- I'd suggest having the seller send by express post so the leaves arrive within a few days.


Wow! Thankyou so much for your help, it looks like my little laddo is going to be having silkworms in the near future. Thankyou again! Can’t wait for him to try them, I love being able to let him try new things and knowing they are good for him. Thankyouuuu!!!
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Re: Mealworms

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Jun 17, 2018 6:44 am

Suzle87 wrote:
kingofnobbys wrote:
Suzle87 wrote:
Thanks for that. Sounds like you really have your own little eco system all worked out!! Not sure where I would get mulberry leaves from but I imagine I could get some silk worms and hit load them with calcium and good calcium/phosphorus greens and that should negate the negative ratio.
Thanks for all your help, Ventress appreciates it too!! :thumbs:


If it's anything like here (Australia) , mulberry trees are in every older suburb and village and park , when I was a kid lots of people had a big Hick's (black) mulberry tree in the backyard, and they were commonly found along farm road and in public parks .
People grew them for the berries (great for making jams, pies, tarts, icecreams & sorbets, and for the shade they provide in summer. I remember as a kid walking down lanes and collecting buckets full of ripe mulberries and pigging out on berries straight off the tree , and sometimes the owners invited the local kids to come into the yard and take as many berries as they wanted.

Black , red and white mulberry tree leaves are all suitable to feed to silkworms , silkworm chow is simply vacuum dried and pulverized mulberry leaves. This is a good food for silkworms too, I've raised a few generations of silkworms from egg to moth on silkworm chow - the trick is to make only enough to feed the worms for a few weeks , and refrigerate it once nuked .
It keeps for months in fridge if you wrap in gladwrap while still hot.

Took seconds to find this source of mulberry leaves in the UK - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fresh-Organi ... SwW9xbACOp or http://www.silkwormstore.co.uk/silkworm-food.html
h

Nutritional content in mulberry leaves see https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10 ... s.2013.e36
The chemical composition of mulberry leaves is comparable with those of leguminous forages and trees such as lucerne and leucaena (Smith, 1994 SmithO.B. 1994. Using fodder from trees and shrubs to feed livestock in the tropics. Better Farming Series N. 42. FAO Publ., Roma, Italy.[Google Scholar]; FAO, 1998 FAO, 1998. Tropical feeds, 8th ed. FAO Publ., Roma, Italy.[Google Scholar]), especially the protein content. The ratio of Ca:P in mulberry leaves was found to be 10:1,


I order 200 leaves (two big plastic bags full) , and a very good consignment .
- I'd suggest having the seller send by express post so the leaves arrive within a few days.


Wow! Thankyou so much for your help, it looks like my little laddo is going to be having silkworms in the near future. Thankyou again! Can’t wait for him to try them, I love being able to let him try new things and knowing they are good for him. Thankyouuuu!!!


You are welcome …. it was no bother ….

When you order, get maybe 25 small (15 - 20mm long) and 25 medium sized (under 4cm long) silkworms , and keep them in separate tubs. If you need more info on how to care for the silkworms ask.
If you just get large, get only 10 - 16 to try Laddo on , I'm betting he'll go nuts for them when he sees a couple …. all I have to do is place a large or medim silkworm in front of my BTs where they can see it and reach and usually they disappear very quick.

A couple of large silkworms is good meal for an adult BTS or adult bearded dragon. So I restrict my skinks and dragon to two large silkworms per day + crickets (they all LOVE crickets) and some salad.
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Re: Mealworms

Postby Suzle87 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:45 am

http://www.silkwormstore.co.uk/standard ... g-kit.html
I am thinking of getting this and then some mulberry leaves aswell from the link you suggested. What do you think? My only minor concern is keeping them warm enough, I think if I keep them on top of the vivarium heat from that should do the trick.
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Re: Mealworms

Postby Suzle87 » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:52 am

Also what on earth do I do with ones that become moths?? (Just thought this, can I release them, is there a way of stopping them becoming moths?... probly a stupid question sorry)
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Re: Mealworms

Postby splashy07 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:30 am

You can feed them off before they cocoon, or break open the cocoons and take out the pupae and feed those off.
When I kept bearded dragons a few years back they'd eat the moths! (Insects are also an interest of mine so I'd let some go full cycle.)
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Re: Mealworms

Postby Suzle87 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:50 am

splashy07 wrote:You can feed them off before they cocoon, or break open the cocoons and take out the pupae and feed those off.
When I kept bearded dragons a few years back they'd eat the moths! (Insects are also an interest of mine so I'd let some go full cycle.)

Oh wow okay, thanks for that. Amazing how there has been this whole world all along i knew nothing about and now I'm learning so much, Love it!
Looks like i'll be ordering some silkworms next week! :D
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Re: Mealworms

Postby kingofnobbys » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:04 am

splashy07 wrote:You can feed them off before they cocoon, or break open the cocoons and take out the pupae and feed those off.
When I kept bearded dragons a few years back they'd eat the moths! (Insects are also an interest of mine so I'd let some go full cycle.)


My beardies and skinks all love the moths.
I prefer to keep let the cocoons produce moths and get the eggs …. hence more worms. Each female moth will lay up to 400 eggs …. if you don't want all the eggs , sell them on Ebay or Etsy , plenty of people looking for cheap silkworms and silkworm eggs , can be good little cottage industry and pocket money spinner.
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Re: Mealworms

Postby Suzle87 » Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:42 am

kingofnobbys wrote:
splashy07 wrote:You can feed them off before they cocoon, or break open the cocoons and take out the pupae and feed those off.
When I kept bearded dragons a few years back they'd eat the moths! (Insects are also an interest of mine so I'd let some go full cycle.)


My beardies and skinks all love the moths.
I prefer to keep let the cocoons produce moths and get the eggs …. hence more worms. Each female moth will lay up to 400 eggs …. if you don't want all the eggs , sell them on Ebay or Etsy , plenty of people looking for cheap silkworms and silkworm eggs , can be good little cottage industry and pocket money spinner.


Hi, This is a terrific idea!! I've been looking into it, and you can also sell the cocoons as people seem to use them within their beauty regimes?! *first I'd heard of it, but in the interest of science I may test it out!*
So it looks like Suzeindustries will be taking a step into the wonderful world of silkworms haha! thanks for all the advice everyone. No doubt once I've got them and have set them up I'll have more questions, I'll keep you posted how I get on!

Thankyou again :thumbs:

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