Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

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xxmonitorlizardxx
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby xxmonitorlizardxx » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:25 pm

It's really blurry...
Based off of the blurriness though I would label that a Merauke from Halmhera. I think I see a lot of speckles/stripes inbetween the bands so it might be a Merauke x Indonesian.
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Dakota » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:33 pm

That's what I been trying to say, but everyone was disagreeing with me. FINALLY SOMEONE IS AGREEING. omg. :pray:

I've been using the example of Merauke. It was scientifically described in 2000. Before the year 2000, were the Meraukes found outside the city of Merauke just typical Indonesian..? No. ..which is what they were describing it. It was still a Merauke, just found outside of where is was first found... Same with the Halmahera Indonesian.. or North Maluku Indonesian, to be correct.
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Bird_Brain » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:42 pm

Moving to the GDF as there really isn't anything scientific about this, just speculation and guesswork.
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Dakota » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:43 pm

But minimum size/weight for Northerns is.. :nono: :roll:
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Bird_Brain » Sat Aug 03, 2013 9:48 pm

Dakota Nivens wrote:But minimum size/weight for Northerns is.. :nono: :roll:

Please do not start throwing your smart butt and know it all attitude my way!
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Richard.C » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:37 pm

ok gigas gurus

a halmahera island bluey is a halmahera island bluey,if its collected from halmahera,wether or not it has the classic look at that pet trade name or not,its a locale animal,hence named after locale,thats the halmahera part,that trait isnt restricted to halmahera,and isnt also an accirate representation of what is found there,as i put it,just a pet trade name

you both have now said it isnt a traot restricted to halmahera,so we are getting somewhere,slowly but thats progress,lol,how can an animal from elsewhere be labled as a halmahera bluetongue,if i had a melbourne victorian eastern that looked like a sydney form,that would be like me saying its a sydney form,or in short spinning crap,just because it looks like one doesnt mean it is one

halmahera is a dumb pet trade name, given to a certain looking indonesian bluey(gigas gigas) that trait is found on other islands to

when theres no wau to even tell if the animal in the pet trade has come from a certain area,how can uou label it as a certain locale off of looks,and call a thread trying to do so truthful

you cant compare it to calling an indo an indo,or a merauke a merauke,those are scientificly described subspecies,one of which being what a pet trade name(halmahera) is ,just an indo

have u guys actually looked at how these species/sibspecies were described?

the things that put them into subspecies of the nominate form(gigas gigas) or just speculating from pics or what pet trade says?

pet trade has black easterns and albino easterns out of aus now,pet trade says they are imported wild caight indos,according to you guys thats gospel and should be followed,as thats what pet trade is saying
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Richard.C » Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:44 pm

Dakota Nivens wrote:But minimum size/weight for Northerns is.. :nono: :roll:


and yes it is more scientific,theres usually minimum sizes and weights species or subspecies have been listed at to successfully reproduce at,cant find any for northerns,so was looking for FACTS

if i wanted guestimates id ask on a ferret forum,lol
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Dakota » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:07 pm

Richard, I totally see where you are coming from, I really do. But when we think of a North Maluku Blue-Tongued Skink, we don't think of a Merauke.. we think of an extremely dark animal, regardless if it was found from a certain island or found in Papua. Like what ML said, they have distinct characteristics that separates them from the rest of the Indonesians.
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Richard.C » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:35 pm

:chin:

distinct traits that separate them from other areas????

if animals not from Halmahera have same traits how are they traits restricted to Halmahera blueys????
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Richard.C » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:50 pm

xxmonitorlizardxx wrote:It's really blurry...
Based off of the blurriness though I would label that a Merauke from Halmhera. I think I see a lot of speckles/stripes inbetween the bands so it might be a Merauke x Indonesian.

so seeing as you two agree to the above quote,can u put up the map of indo with the ranges of the 3 subspecies of gigas and circle Halmahera/maluka amd also circle the range of meraukes

I want to show you guys something that you keep missing
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Richard.C » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:43 am

how can merauke from Halmahera keep being brought up looking at there ranges on the map?

you have also brought up jeffs indo species thread and seem to have missed the point of it and why its a great post

id,ing species and sub species isn't about colors,if it was there would be 10 thousand subspecies of gigas,the people whom describe new species and subspecies need to delve deeper,they also study the other forms intently to rule out similarities,scalation is used,not just on heads,mid body counts are also done,svl vs tail lengths,lots and lots of things are taken into consideration and when getting them named,they have to show the differences to the other subspecies to,its pretty involved,and like on forums they never always agree

now you guys keep bringing up how they look,totally blacklegs /feet often mentioned

gigas gigas including what you are saying are halmaheras can have speckles on there legs,they are highly variable,so theres one silly trait you keep mentioning that isnt an accurate portrayal

the bluey bible has a section where they talk about halmahera traits,which mentions they don't all fit those traits,it thensays those traits are also found in off Halmahera indos

that in laymens terms says they cant be based as halmhera of origin by looks alone as the whole population found there doesn't fit those traits,plus those traitsare also found on animals not from there

so in laymans layman terms,those traits aren't locale specific ,so basing an animal of unknown origins as a locale specific animal(Halmahera/mulaka)is highly inaccurate and quite misleading
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Dakota » Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:51 am

The main North Maluku BTS trait is the big long thick stripe down the neck, then you use a dichotomous key with the rest.
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby RoryBreaker » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:17 am

You are a trooper Richard, most would have given up flogging this horse long ago( let alone a couple of threads worth).

Your threshold for frustration is without peer. :thumbs:
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Richard.C » Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:24 am

that is one of the traits found off Halmahera to,gigas gigas as a whole

again from bluey bible

gigas gigas
nape ;with a distinct longitudinal streak

gigas evanscens

nape ;with a brown or black longitudinal streak

gigas keyensis

nape ; a wide longitudinal streak,bordered with white or cream extending to the first dorsal band

so another average trait to use for identifying a Halmahera locale animal that could cover indos and keis

lol rory, theres method to my madness
well maybe,this horse wont take much more of a flogging :lol:
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby James Wilson » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:40 pm

Richard.C wrote:also animals collected from here there and everywhere are kept in mass groups at exporters,not state of the art facilities,some if timing is right likely breed,so if babies are imported who knows what they are


Well said. In addition, Importers and exporters often do not even know what they have, and they mix up animals. They slap all kinds of names (often names they think we as buyers want to hear) on animals they often can not identify in regard to species, subspecies or local. Unless you are able to trace a specimen's chain of custody (with 100% certainty) all the way back to its said local, there is no way to really know what you have for sure. The best you can really do is an educated guess.
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Bird_Brain » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:27 pm

North Maluku Indonesian? :hair:
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby Scincoides » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:14 pm

I just noticed this. Trade names for species, correct or not shouldn't really be altered. I feel like its going to cause more confusion. There has already been plenty of confusion about the halmahera just because its a darker form of the standard gigas, and people seem to think that its a different species, trying to change it to "North Maluku Indonesian" regardless of whether or not the animals are found there is going to create more problems than its worth. The merauke is a merauke regardless of where its collected, same with the Irian jaya.
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Re: Truth about the Halmahera Island locale

Postby gehtan » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:36 am

Dont worry bro, they did this with my post too and it was fuun! :D
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