FEEDERS for blueys? Roaches, snails, silkworms, etc.?

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FEEDERS for blueys? Roaches, snails, silkworms, etc.?

Postby jasjmm27 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:47 am

I am curious as to if anyone uses roaches as feeders often? I am currently keeping a small "colony" for use in feeding an Acantharus monitor that I am keeping for a friend for a while and they seem to be a high quality feeder and easy to breed.

I have read many articles calling roaches the "big juicy burger" of feeder insects...just thought that they could be a "fun hunt" for the blueys if they feel up to it occasionally.

Also, in terms of an easier meal, has anyone attempted to breed and keep silkworms? They seem to be rather difficult and demand a lot of attention...almost making it not worth it.

Just thoughts and input on possible "self replenishing" feeders would be helpful...

I haven't looked much, but does anyone know if you can get "garden snails" online somewhere? I am in AZ and can't find any of those big juicy ones we used to have in CA here...guess I can go visit the parents and pick some up sometime, though! ;)
Last edited by jasjmm27 on Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tattoo » Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:55 am

I have never fed roaches. We wintered in Florida when I was a kid and I hate roaches. Can't say I would ever willingly bring one in my house. :dead:
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Postby NomadOfTheHills » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:05 pm

I am in the process of setting up a Madagasgar Hisser coloney for my BTS.
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Postby jasjmm27 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:09 pm

Tattoo wrote:I have never fed roaches. We wintered in Florida when I was a kid and I hate roaches. Can't say I would ever willingly bring one in my house. :dead:
O.K. ... so I can be a girl sometimes. I'm o.k. with that. :lol:


Yeah, I felt the same way before I read and read and read about how much better they are for feeders than crickets and any other readily available insect....plus, well...they breed like roaches! ;)

It is pretty easy to keep them, they eat everything and have a high "meat to shell/skeleton" content. I would never have thought of using them for blueys unless I had started to keep a few for the Ackie I am "baby sitting". :)

It just seems like a quick, easy, and cheap way to keep feeder insect readily available...

I do understand the reluctance to have them around, though! I already have a few uninvited north american cockroaches (white eye, I think they are?) visiting my home on occasion! At any rate, just looking to see if I can supplement my blueys diet with a cheap/easy feeder and checking to see if there has been any luck "in the field" from those of you on the forum with such endeavors. :)
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Postby jasjmm27 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:12 pm

NomadOfTheHills wrote:I am in the process of setting up a Madagasgar Hisser coloney for my BTS.


Oh nice! Yeah, it seems that the Lobster Roaches might be a bit small and fast (though they are not TOO fast) for a bluey. I know they are easier for them to catch then crickets, but maybe hissers would be the way to go since they get "bluey head" sized and would make a tasty meal! ;)

Maybe I will go that direction. Will you use your hissers solely for the blueys, or do you have other projects (tarantulas, etc.)?
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Postby jasjmm27 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:15 pm

Oh, one more bluey specific question in regards to feeding roaches. It seems that they have a low skeletal content in regard to feeding to most other lizards, but does anyone know if there are any impaction worries or anything similar when it comes to roaches in the bluey diet? I would guess not (due to the reading I have done), but figure I should ask the question to see if anyone else knows, or has read, otherwise?
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Postby NomadOfTheHills » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:18 pm

As long as your bluey has a nice warm basking spot (100+), and is properly hydrated, he should be able to digest them fine.

I also have a leopard gecko that eats them, as well as an African Bullfrog, and tarantulas.
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Postby jasjmm27 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:23 pm

Wow! You can get hissers into a Leopard Gecko! :) That would be a sight to see! Of course, I am sure you are using nymphs or juveniles for that, right? Or do you have a "big daddy" Leo?

I miss my Leopards, think I might have to get a few in the near future! :)
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Postby NomadOfTheHills » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:30 pm

Haha, yes, the nymphs.
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feeders

Postby aggiegirl » Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:43 pm

I have had/tried all of the feeders you listed. I'm not an expert but here are my firsthand experiences:
ROACHES---I have dubias right now. These are great because they breed readily, have live births, don't climb/fly/smell, and are simple to keep. I highly recommend these. Babies are about 1cm and adults peak at almost 2 inches so they can feed several diff sized herps. I am getting hissers too but I fear they will be pets (kids, remember!) instead of feeders.
SNAILS---I have two clutches of apple snail (aquatic) eggs. I will do a picture thread if they hatch. They are easier to care for than the terrestrial snails but you do have to clean the tank more often (tons of poop) and you should feed them several foods (fish food, algae wafers, fresh veggies) if you want them healthy. Each clutch has at least a hundred eggs so this might be the best feeder I've tried yet. Trash snails (from contaminated aquarium plants) are easier to get babies from but some of these were EXTREMELY hard and passed through undigested! I don't recommend these unless you have softer shelled ones. I tried terrestrial snails (which are hermaphrodites!) but the only eggs I had were infertile. I will try this again and report back. Lisa has a thread about breeding these.
SILKWORMS---These are difficult to raise if you don't have an incubator/warmer for the eggs. There are websites to direct you. Most stress that everything must be sterile but this wasn't my problem. The newly hatched worms just grew very slowly without a heat source. Leaving them in indirect sunlight works well unless ants find them. :? I decided raising these is too much trouble unless you have the right equipment. Also, the adult worms eat a ton so you must have plenty of mulberry leaves (or nice neigbors) or the prepared chow.
Hope this helps.
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Postby Steve » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:23 pm

Snails, earthworms, solider grubs.... my top three favorite feeders.
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Postby jasjmm27 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:34 pm

Steve wrote:Snails, earthworms, solider grubs.... my top three favorite feeders.


Yeah, I was wondering about earthworms! What kind of nutritional value do worms have? Can you just go to a fishing store and buy the nightcrawlers/earthworms to feed to Blueys? I know box turtles can live on worms (earth worms and nightcrawlers) and snails, so I would assume that worms are similar in nutritional value to snails? Maybe less calcium and varied other benefits?

What are/where do you find soldier grubs?
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Postby Steve » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:57 pm

soldier grubs = phoenix worms, calcium worms, and a few other names...

they're soldier fly larvae....

42.1% crude protein
34.8% ether extract (lipids)
7.0% crude fiber
7.9% moisture
1.4% nitrogen free extract (NFE)
14.6% ash
5.0% calcium
1.5% phosphorus
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Postby jasjmm27 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:54 pm

Steve wrote:soldier grubs = phoenix worms, calcium worms, and a few other names...

they're soldier fly larvae....

42.1% crude protein
34.8% ether extract (lipids)
7.0% crude fiber
7.9% moisture
1.4% nitrogen free extract (NFE)
14.6% ash
5.0% calcium
1.5% phosphorus


Great! Thanks for the info, Phoenix worms means something to me. :) So, you prefer Phoenix Worms over Silkworms? Is the Nutritional value better for the phoenix? Where do you get all the great info for the nutritional values of feeder animals? Seems like you have all the good stuff! ;)
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Postby Steve » Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:01 pm

This is my life ;) or part of it, anyway..

I used to own/run a forum exoticfeeders.com (let it expire... so it's probably a spam site now)

If you have herps that will take the phoenix worms, they are one of the best feeders out there.
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Postby jasjmm27 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:17 pm

Steve wrote:This is my life ;) or part of it, anyway..

I used to own/run a forum exoticfeeders.com (let it expire... so it's probably a spam site now)

If you have herps that will take the phoenix worms, they are one of the best feeders out there.


EXCELLENT! Glad to have a "feeder pro" here on the site! So, one more question about Phoenix Worms, are they a feeder that can be relatively easily bred/raised by the layman herp owner or more of a specialty type that is better ordered? Typically it seems that worms, in general, are better ordered and left to the pros, just thought I would ask anyway.

Thanks for the great tips, I will try Phoenix worms for sure when the blueys wake up! I hope that Fenix (my indo) will like them! ;)
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Postby Steve » Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:41 pm

Fatal had bad luck with Pheonix Worms... Me... I can't kill them if I tried!
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Postby Fatal_S » Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:46 pm

Yep. Mine all died (I think the lamp shorted and fried em) but Steve's are like roaches -.-' I'll be getting many more though. My guys preferred the wax worms, but the phoenix are great for nutrition, so they'll deal with it.
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Postby NomadOfTheHills » Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:34 pm

Phoneix are really too tiny for use as a BTS stable. Earthworms are full of protein and calcium if your BTS will eat them.
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Postby jasjmm27 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:13 pm

NomadOfTheHills wrote:Phoneix are really too tiny for use as a BTS stable. Earthworms are full of protein and calcium if your BTS will eat them.


Yeah, I have been looking up sites that sell them all day and it looks like the biggest they get is about 3/4"? That is pretty small...would be nice to add that into the diet, but not sure if a full grown BTS would even notice them? It seems like it is at least worth trying, but if it doesn't work it is good to know that earthworms should be another good substitute if the Blueys take to them!

Is there any reason that I couldn't use the worms sold as fish bait at the local bait store or walmart?

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