Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

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Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby donkeybuff » Sun May 26, 2013 1:59 pm

I noticed that Exo-Terra has been advertising a new "negative-ion" bulb, which supposedly emits negative ions. I know that after a storm, negative ion concentrations are much higher than normal. I was thinking about this, and I have been wondering if using a negative ion bulb or something else that emits negative ions could be used to simulate a rainy season. Combined with the fact that breeding in T. Gigas is possibly triggered by rainy seasons, I thought that a negative ion bulb put in for a period of time about the same length as the Indonesian rainy season could trigger breeding in captive T. Gigas. Thoughts on my idea? Am I just crazy? :noknow:
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Jeff » Sun May 26, 2013 3:46 pm

It's a great theory to test. I would certainly be willing to try it. Of course, we all know the best thing would be to just send your Indonesian species to Susann's house. They seem to breed very well there. :lounge:
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Susann » Sun May 26, 2013 7:58 pm

:puzzled:
Sheesh, just twice... And only Meraukes...
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Scotts1au » Sun May 26, 2013 8:46 pm

Susann wrote::puzzled:
Sheesh, just twice... And only Meraukes...


Only? Come on cough up the secret :lol:
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Fatal_S » Sun May 26, 2013 9:04 pm

Mod Note:
Advanced forum, remember? Laying down the law - get talking about theories and experiments now.

My view:
Interesting idea. Would the negative ions correspond to a raise in the humidity as well, or do you think just the bulb would do? I wonder if there would be a change in behavior too. Who has enough gigas to run experiments on?
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Dakota » Sun May 26, 2013 9:46 pm

Fatal_S wrote:Mod Note:
Advanced forum, remember? Laying down the law - get talking about theories and experiments now.

My view:
Interesting idea. Would the negative ions correspond to a raise in the humidity as well, or do you think just the bulb would do? I wonder if there would be a change in behavior too. Who has enough gigas to run experiments on?

I could try it when I get all what I have on hold. I am very interested as well.. just as long as it don't cost an arm and a leg.. I should be getting 3 more... and all but one is for breeding.
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Richard.C » Sun May 26, 2013 10:03 pm

one thing is,these guys actually seem to mate out of the rainy season,so that babies are born in the rainy season,they mate in the middle of the dryest part of the year ,when theres the biggest fluctuation between day and night warmth,when its raining/stormy,the wetseason,matings long over

perhaps that explains alot of the inconsistencies in breeding them

with wild caughts,when is it most that they drop there babies,wild caught gravid ones


spring breeders usually drop late summer into autumn,winter breeders drop late spring early summers,early wetseason droppers
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Dakota » Sun May 26, 2013 10:30 pm

donkeybuff wrote:I noticed that Exo-Terra has been advertising a new "negative-ion" bulb, which supposedly emits negative ions. I know that after a storm, negative ion concentrations are much higher than normal. I was thinking about this, and I have been wondering if using a negative ion bulb or something else that emits negative ions could be used to simulate a rainy season. Combined with the fact that breeding in T. Gigas is possibly triggered by rainy seasons, I thought that a negative ion bulb put in for a period of time about the same length as the Indonesian rainy season could trigger breeding in captive T. Gigas. Thoughts on my idea? Am I just crazy? :noknow:

I was talking to another breeder of Meraukes, and he says that he thinks they respond to barometric pressure, which is high when a storm comes.. and like you said, before and after storms the concentration is very high.

Thanks for letting me know about this! Definitely trying it out. Btw, I found the link.. :wink:

http://www.petco.com/product/122049/Exo ... iption-tab

It also has a many more addition stuff that is awesome.
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby xxmonitorlizardxx » Mon May 27, 2013 6:28 am

Information from exo-terra themselves:
http://exo-terra.com/en/products/natural_light_ion.php
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby hurricanejen » Fri May 31, 2013 12:26 pm

Just a note guys, we've got em for a lot cheaper... I've actually already been trying the bulbs out at home.
http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/rep ... b-15-watt/

From what I've noticed, the bulbs are MUCH MUCH brighter than any UVB bulb, which makes sense, as a portion of the light being emitted isn't in a spectrum we can't see.

The supposed smell eliminating thing I am on the fence about. Poop still stinks, and to my nose, about as much as it smelled before I used the bulbs.

No difference in my bluey's behavior, although I will note that my frilled dragons (when I still had them) responded extremely well to the brightness in these bulbs, while they would shirk away from UVB bulbs. My frillies were WC adult indonesians, and extremely sensitive to heat/light. Keeping them outdoors in the SoCal summertime nearly killed them, as did putting them under a mercury vapor bulb. I had the best success with them using lower wattage basking bulbs and only one old compact fluorescent, which emitted tiny amounts of UVB, coupled with a couple of ion bulbs for brightness. From what I could tell based on their behavior in a large cage and what I could figure out about where wild indonesian frilleds hung out, it made sense that they'd be living in fairly shaded, but warm, high humidity/tropical areas that were low in UVB intensity due to the plants filtering it all out. Once I adjusted their cage conditions, they thrived, and when I got the stores to keep them in cages that had low UVB intensity lights (5.0s instead of 10.0s or MVBs), the frilleds there grew like weeds and were happily thriving.

What's all that mean for gigas blueys? No freaking clue, but I wonder sometimes that maybe we keep them too well lit for an animal that lives in the rainforest floor. Maybe. I can't for the life of me find pics or info on where the indonesian suckers are actually collected/found out in the wild. And I'm not talking locale, I'm talking did the guy find it under a bush or was it in a burrow or what?

Anyway. LMK if you have more questions about those bulbs. I test out just about every new reptile product we carry and can tell you all about em :)

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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby hurricanejen » Fri May 31, 2013 12:32 pm

Fatal_S wrote: I wonder if there would be a change in behavior too. Who has enough gigas to run experiments on?


*cough cough* :whistle: :whistle:

I'm updating the caging today, actually. Let's seeeeeeeee
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Richard.C » Fri May 31, 2013 4:33 pm

In australia,frillies are asscociated with open woodland habitats,not in rainforests,its my understanding most gigas types are also found in more open areas,but theres not a great deal of study on them so who really knows

Frillies have distinct wet/dry seasons,being most active in the wet,seemingly disapeering in the dry

In the wet season in the tropics,humidity is extremely high,generally in the 90 plus percent range

In captivity they are often kept warm enough but to dry,mimmicking the dryseason,its clear and sunny in dryseason,in the wet its mixed with alot of cloudyness

Im not sure on socals weather,but if dryish climate with coolish nights,compared to summer conditions frillies get in nature that would explain they struggled outdoors there if conditions mimicked there dryseason

Alot are kept outdoors in australia,even just during the day in summer in temperate areas when its warm enough,in fairly open caging,and worship sun exposure

Mine used to climb to top of cage to bask and rest up against uv lighting in the form of flouos,warmth and humidity made them active,warm and dry and cooler overnite made them statues,they shut down thinking dryseason
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Richard.C » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:07 am

Look at how most people whom have success with gigas types have done it,dirunal cycling like how you cycle pythons from the same type of localities,days still warm but night drops,day back ground temps slightly lower as well, with the lower ambient temps of winter where these breeders have had success

The pythons from same localities arent generally cooled at a steady temp of 20 degrees celcius,as a rule they slightly lower day temps and really drop over night temps,they dont use ion bulbs,dont mimick wet dry seasons so much with humidity,not on purpose anyways,its temp cycling,pythons in nature are now active during the day as nights are to cool,they mate in the peak of the dry season may to july,lay eggs usually around september with babies hatching nov/dec like tiliqua they are using conditions to suit best chance of survival of babies,having them early to mid wet season


Pythons are bred by the truck load,there breeding is well published and the conditions used,yet bluetongues from same locality are being cycled differently,more like temperate form species

Again look at those whom have had sucess do it,look at python breeders with species from same localities,they dont use ion bulbs,they mimick the wet/dry cycling method of tropical reptiles

They cool by dropping night temps significantly from around 24 ambient down to around 15 ambient,whilst still providing day warmth

Which seems to be what happens with those having some success with gigas forms are doing to

Its how folk breed frillies to,suprise suprise they also share same habitats/conditions
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Jos » Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:16 am

Never used such bulbs and we breed the Merauke every year.

Born 02-8-2013 small nest of 3.
Born 17-08-2013 bigger nest of 13.

2 females are still expecting.

I will post it when they are done.
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Richard.C » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:01 am

nice one jos

looking forward to seeing pics

out of curiosity did they mate in middle of cooling period,or with spring warming?

depending how you cycle them they usually follow one of those,spring warming type is when shutdown alot cooler,mid winter being more natural cycle,nocturnal cooling period with mating usually in peak of coolest nite zone
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Jos » Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:26 am

The mating I observed was round about 2/3 of the cooling period.
And I think the key is like you mention a proper cooling period.
The only thing I have chanched this season is to let one male with the females for the only reason to be sure who the father was.

In time I will post the baby's and enclosures
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Richard.C » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:20 am

thanks jos,its great to see some success,looking forward,late spring into early summer to pics when u get a chance,keep up the good work


so for earlier posts,thats mating when humidity is at its lowest and the temo fluctuation is at its biggest between night and day,mid to late in the actual cooling period,not the hot and humid wet season

are we seeing a pattern with those that are having success?
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby hurricanejen » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:41 am

Thank you for sharing this - I'm really interested as to when the mating was taking place.

So a significant night time drop... Jos, how cool do you let yours get at night?
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Re: Thoughts on Breeding T. Gigas

Postby Richard.C » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:19 am

jos goes from 20 to 22 ish down to 15 to 17 over night

in the locked thread under this one jos has more detailed info on how they are cycled and when ect

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